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Ubermann
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:27 am Post subject: Help with Rottmd |
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Hi all.
After playing, mapping and modding for Doom much time, i decided to move to Root, and now I want to create some maps for this great game.
I started doing some simple room-corridor-room maps to get used to rottmd.
I understand the mapping and so, but I cant understand much how GADs and elevated plarforms works.
I think i need some explanation on how heights works for GADs, lifts and so on.
Another question: when I insert in rottmd a floor, i usually "paint" the dark-blue'd floor in the editor, but I guess what the other floors are for. I made a map with several floor paintings, but all of them look the same.
Is there any decent manual about this editor?.
And some minor last questions: is it possible to build a map with different ceiling heights, using WinRottGL or WinRott? Can I use Hires textures with WinRott/WinRottGL? Can/How do i add bots to Deathmatch with WinRoot?
Thanks in advance.
Auf Wiedersehen. |
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PlayerLin
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Taipei, Taiwan.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Help with Rottmd |
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| Ubermann wrote: |
Another question: when I insert in rottmd a floor, i usually "paint" the dark-blue'd floor in the editor, but I guess what the other floors are for. I made a map with several floor paintings, but all of them look the same.
Is there any decent manual about this editor?.
And some minor last questions: is it possible to build a map with different ceiling heights, using WinRottGL or WinRott? Can I use Hires textures with WinRott/WinRottGL? Can/How do i add bots to Deathmatch with WinRoot?
Thanks in advance.
Auf Wiedersehen. |
Floor tiles are mark as "sector", you can use other floor tiles for each room/sector area, but don't use two or more different floor tiles on push wall areas, else you'll get funny shit happens.
You can use all the same floor tiles too. 
ROTT engine only support fixed ceiling heights. Because ROTT was based on Wolf3D engine so I guess it'll too hard to support that...
About GADs...I still can't finger out all of them... :\
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Firstly, hi and welcome to the forum!
Secondly, the GADs are a little bit funny to work with. Mike the Mad Mapper (tm) should hopefully come along and explain how they work in a clearer way than I ever could.
Oh, I just noticed PlayerLin has answered some of your queries. Yeah, the floor must be the same throughout the level. The different colours are 'zones' that affect how guards etc 'hear' the player.
Unfortunately, PlayerLin is also correct in stating that ROTT can only handle fixed ceiling heights per level.
Mapping for ROTT can be a little limited but it only adds to the challenge to create something fun and interesting to play!
Different (and hi res) textures can indeed be used with WinROTT. It's a little quirky but if jbailey (one of the devs) doesn't pop along I'll write up a full explanation for you.
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Lawstiker
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 473
Location: Sol System
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Help with Rottmd |
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I know how gads work pretty well in rott3dmapper (and yes back before + and - key where implemented and you had input confusing raw numbers), but as for Rott Mapper Deluxe? nope.
As said, that would be a question for Mike. Hopefully he pops by and can inform you of how its done properly
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Help with Rottmd |
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| Ubermann wrote: | Hi all.
After playing, mapping and modding for Doom much time, i decided to move to Root, and now I want to create some maps for this great game.
I started doing some simple room-corridor-room maps to get used to rottmd.
I understand the mapping and so, but I cant understand much how GADs and elevated plarforms works.
I think i need some explanation on how heights works for GADs, lifts and so on.
Another question: when I insert in rottmd a floor, i usually "paint" the dark-blue'd floor in the editor, but I guess what the other floors are for. I made a map with several floor paintings, but all of them look the same.
Is there any decent manual about this editor?.
And some minor last questions: is it possible to build a map with different ceiling heights, using WinRottGL or WinRott? Can I use Hires textures with WinRott/WinRottGL? Can/How do i add bots to Deathmatch with WinRoot?
Thanks in advance.
Auf Wiedersehen. |
Hi, I can't believe I've become the resident ROTT mapping expert, since I only learned it a few years ago... It's a amazing what a little playing around will do...
Anyway, as has been discussed in other threads, settings such a skies, floors, sky/ceiling heights are uniform throughout entire levels. Settings for these are set once and apply to everywhere in your map. In Rott Mapper Deluxe (RMD), you set these things via Edit->Map Settings.
As for the various floor tiles in the RMD palette, please reference this thread:
http://rott.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=335&highlight=
As for GADs, I'm not sure what your question is.
Most items, GADs included, can have a "height" associated with it.
If you don't give an item a height, it will simply be on the floor. If you edit a tile's properties (in ROTTMD, you shift-double-left-click) and specify the "story" and "story fraction". Although it varies from character to character, a player is roughly 1 story tall, and in order to be able to use GADs as a stairwell, the increment should be around 5 or so "fractions" of a story. (RMD also has a handy height adjustment tool in Tools->Height Adjustments that will allow you to automatically set incrementors to VERY easily create stairs...)
As for the rest, I can only answer questions regarding the original DOS version of ROTT, as I do not use any of the ports.
When I was getting starting in mapping, I read completely though the RMD help files (like 5-6 pages). I even printed them out and use them to this day for handy reference (especially the background/foreground tile list -- they give lots of hints on how things should be used).
Let me know if you have any other questions or need further clarification.
-Mike
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Ubermann
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks you all for your answers
@ MikeMiller: about GADs, the question (that you partialy answered) is: what the "story" represents and how does it works when setting objects' heights? I build a GADs stair without using story feature at all (i.e. all GADs story is 0 ), and works pretty good in-game, but I would like to understand it well.
As you told, story seems to be the different actors height, but anyway, i don't see what it is used for.
Thanks. |
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jbailey
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I've got a text file somewhere on my pc that listed some of the gad
height values, it seemed like $E000 was one value I remember, if I ever
find that file, I'll post it.
jbailey |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Ubermann wrote: | @ MikeMiller: about GADs, the question (that you partialy answered) is: what the "story" represents and how does it works when setting objects' heights? I build a GADs stair without using story feature at all (i.e. all GADs story is 0 ), and works pretty good in-game, but I would like to understand it well.
As you told, story seems to be the different actors height, but anyway, i don't see what it is used for.
Thanks. |
One of us is missing something obvious. It's probably me.
What does the "story" represent? The height of the object in the room.
If the room is 16 stories high, and you set the object to "8" stories high, then it'll show up roughly halfway between the floor and the ceiling.
How can you create GAD stairs without setting the story/height on each GAD? Can you give me an example map? I can't fathom such a thing.
-Mike
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Maybe it's the definition of the word 'storey' that's causing the problem? Storey is a term that means the height of a floor in a building.
For example, a 2 storey building would have 2 floors - the ground floor and the second floor. So if you if you wanted the GAD's to go higher than 1 storey (or floor heights) you would have to add 1 to the value of 'storey'.
Have I made things clearer or confused them? I'm not sure myself!
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| jbailey wrote: | I've got a text file somewhere on my pc that listed some of the gad
height values, it seemed like $E000 was one value I remember, if I ever
find that file, I'll post it.
jbailey |
One might have worry about such things when working with ROTTED or other mapping programs, but with RMD it's in "plain English" do to speak. A 10 story room is divided into 10 stories. And each story is further subdivided into 16 smaller parts for granularity. The values in the mapper are these plain integers, making it very easy to use and understand without having to remember obscure hex values (or whatever).
-Mike
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jbailey
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Regular values are a lot easier to work with, I'm not sure, but I think the
hex stuff was used in the ted editor, doing things your way is a lot
easier... |
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Ubermann
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeMiller wrote: | | Ubermann wrote: | @ MikeMiller: about GADs, the question (that you partialy answered) is: what the "story" represents and how does it works when setting objects' heights? I build a GADs stair without using story feature at all (i.e. all GADs story is 0 ), and works pretty good in-game, but I would like to understand it well.
As you told, story seems to be the different actors height, but anyway, i don't see what it is used for.
Thanks. |
One of us is missing something obvious. It's probably me.
What does the "story" represent? The height of the object in the room.
If the room is 16 stories high, and you set the object to "8" stories high, then it'll show up roughly halfway between the floor and the ceiling.
How can you create GAD stairs without setting the story/height on each GAD? Can you give me an example map? I can't fathom such a thing.
-Mike |
I'm not at my computer right now, but I think I understand it. In RMD, you can specify the height and the story where the actor will be spawned.
If you set an height of 30, the GAD is spawned in almost Story 2, i think.
It's some confusing the first time, since Story and Height in RMD seem somehow contradictory, or at least, not complementary.
But coming from Doom mapping, it's more clear to understand the Rott heights as heights, but not as Stories.
But right now, I have another question: How do I change the sectors' light level? I took a look to DARKWAR original maps, and your (MikeMiller's) maps. But i can't get what i'm missing to make different sectors with different light levels. I tried to reproduce your levels features, but i think i'm missing something and dunno what.
Thanks. |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ubermann wrote: | I'm not at my computer right now, but I think I understand it. In RMD, you can specify the height and the story where the actor will be spawned.
If you set an height of 30, the GAD is spawned in almost Story 2, i think.
It's some confusing the first time, since Story and Height in RMD seem somehow contradictory, or at least, not complementary.
But coming from Doom mapping, it's more clear to understand the Rott heights as heights, but not as Stories. |
There's no such setting as a "height" setting on an object, to use the terminology in Rott Mapper Deluxe (RMD). There is a height setting for the entire level (anywhere from 1 to 16), and this does correspond to the "story" setting for a particular cell/object, but they're different settings. Again, this map height setting specifies how high the ceiling (or sky) is throughout the entire level.
On an object, however, RMD calls it the "story" but you're free to consider it the object's height in the room, since that's what it is. An object's story (height) is anywhere from 1 to 16 (or a fraction in between).
One way to think about it is that a "story" set on object isn't how tall it is, but how high up it spawns. (e.g. it will appear 8 stories up).
| Ubermann wrote: | But right now, I have another question: How do I change the sectors' light level? I took a look to DARKWAR original maps, and your (MikeMiller's) maps. But i can't get what i'm missing to make different sectors with different light levels. I tried to reproduce your levels features, but i think i'm missing something and dunno what.
Thanks. |
Similar to the level's overall "height" setting, you can also set the level's brightness and light fade rate in the Edit -> Map Settings dialog.
The brightness level is, well, how bright the level appears. 1 is the darkest and 8 is the lightest.
The light fade rate is the rate at which the light fades to black (or fog, if you've specified fog). 1 is the fastest and 16 is the slowest. (If I'm not mistaken, you can also think of this as "how far" a light will shine).
As to how some rooms in a level are light and some are dark, that's when you set the overall map's brightness and fade rates to a very low number, and then you can brighten up certain areas with lights (ceiling lights, chendeliers, floor lamps, braziers, fire urns, etc.).
Does this help?
--Mike
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Ubermann
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeMiller wrote: | [...]
| Ubermann wrote: | But right now, I have another question: How do I change the sectors' light level? I took a look to DARKWAR original maps, and your (MikeMiller's) maps. But i can't get what i'm missing to make different sectors with different light levels. I tried to reproduce your levels features, but i think i'm missing something and dunno what.
Thanks. |
Similar to the level's overall "height" setting, you can also set the level's brightness and light fade rate in the Edit -> Map Settings dialog.
The brightness level is, well, how bright the level appears. 1 is the darkest and 8 is the lightest.
The light fade rate is the rate at which the light fades to black (or fog, if you've specified fog). 1 is the fastest and 16 is the slowest. (If I'm not mistaken, you can also think of this as "how far" a light will shine).
As to how some rooms in a level are light and some are dark, that's when you set the overall map's brightness and fade rates to a very low number, and then you can brighten up certain areas with lights (ceiling lights, chendeliers, floor lamps, braziers, fire urns, etc.).
Does this help?
--Mike |
Yes it help a lot.
Thanks. |
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Lawstiker
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 473
Location: Sol System
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ubermann wrote: |
Yes it help a lot.
Thanks. |
Glad mike could help you out. Good luck in your mapping
_________________
Head on over to the Rise of the Triad HQ for ROTT news, downloads, and more!
| MikeMiller wrote: | | Lawstiker, you're not allowed to do what you want. You need to do what WE want :p :p :p |
Lawstiker, the ROTT Community's Official Bitch |
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