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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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 Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject: Why Doesn't This Map Work? |
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http://cid-c0ebae7cfc051a83.office.live.com/self.aspx/ROTT/TEST2.RTL
In Rott Mapper Deluxe it says that there is an Invalid Object. That's the player start! It doesn't matter where I put it I get that feckin' error! Also the doors cause the game to crash and the player gets stuck in the wall to the right of the elevator door... God, I am soooo stupid!!  |
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Lawstiker
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 473
Location: Sol System
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hey your not stupid Per-Scan, you did say this was your first mapping experience wasn't it? I would have to say ROTT editing is a bit different from editing other games, and you have to be careful about what you do. I know some strange things have happened to me with it (such as putting six bad guys in a map, then when you play it theres a 7th guy there  )
But i'll give this a look at least and see. Sure Mike is going to be the one to ask on this though.
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| MikeMiller wrote: | | Lawstiker, you're not allowed to do what you want. You need to do what WE want :p :p :p |
Lawstiker, the ROTT Community's Official Bitch |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Why Doesn't This Map Work? |
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| Per-Scan wrote: | http://cid-c0ebae7cfc051a83.office.live.com/self.aspx/ROTT/TEST2.RTL
In Rott Mapper Deluxe it says that there is an Invalid Object. That's the player start! It doesn't matter where I put it I get that feckin' error! Also the doors cause the game to crash and the player gets stuck in the wall to the right of the elevator door... God, I am soooo stupid!! |
The problem is that you're using the wrong tiles for floor.
You're using the "settings" tiles that would only appear in the "settings" area (the few tiles at the upper left-hand corner of the map).
What you want are the actual "sound floor" tiles (108-152).
-Mike
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, okay. So there are 2 different kinds of floor? Why?? Surely the floor is the floor is the floor? And in this case how the hell do you choose different floors for different rooms? Or is that only allowed on a map by map basis?
PS: Thanks for the help Mike and the emotional support Lawstiker! 
PPS: Oh, I also got the Elevator Dumbass error out of the blue. I have had an elevator door as the door to the MP40 'cupboard' since day one... Now, tonight, I get that error popping up...! |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Per-Scan wrote: | Ah, okay. So there are 2 different kinds of floor? Why?? Surely the floor is the floor is the floor? And in this case how the hell do you choose different floors for different rooms? Or is that only allowed on a map by map basis?
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There are two different types of tiles here.
One is a "floor setting" which is only used in the map settings area, and which defines what kind of floor your map has...as in, what the floor looks like. This is a setting for the entire map (not in each particular room). This means the floor (or ceiling/sky) must look the same in all room in a map. You have no choice in this.
The second is what's called "floor sound" tiles, which you put on the floor in each particular room. Say you put tile 108 flooring in one room, and tile 110 flooring in another room. These define distinct and separate (mutually exclusive) sound areas. If there is something that makes sound in one area, it cannot be heard in the other area.
If it didn't work this way, you'd hear all sounds from all noisy items everywhere in your level simultaneously as soon as the player spawns. Typically you wouldn't want to hear noises from a firechute or a spinblade until you're in the vicinity.
And these "floor sound tiles" also apply to sight. Make a room filled with floor 108, and then make a stripe of area with floor 110 where you place an enemy. If the player is standing on floor 108, he cannot see or hear the enemy on the 110 tile area (and the enemy can't see the player, either). But if the player steps onto the floor 110 area, the enemy will suddenly become visible (usually).
I hope I'm making things clear. If not, I'll try again.
| Per-Scan wrote: | | PPS: Oh, I also got the Elevator Dumbass error out of the blue. I have had an elevator door as the door to the MP40 'cupboard' since day one... Now, tonight, I get that error popping up...! |
Hmmm, that typically doesn't happen unless you use the elevator numbers (FG 90-97) along with the elevator door. And I've used elevator doors as regular doors many times. Once I fix your floor tile problem in the map you uploaded earlier, I don't get any elevator errors. Are you referring to a different version of the map?
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks very much. That makes perfect sense. I tried out the different floor thing earlier to make some guards ambush the player but it didn't work the way I expected. I had noticed that putting the different coloured floors down and placing items on them made the items invisible. So I thought about doing it with the guards and I inadvertently created the wee example you just gave!
I take it that's how you did the magical appearing baddies in map 1 of MIKE1.RTL, then?
With regards to the elevator thing. It hasn't happened since so I don't know what that was... |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Per-Scan wrote: | | I take it that's how you did the magical appearing baddies in map 1 of MIKE1.RTL, then? |
Correct.
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Right. Okay. I'm cursed! I was using ROTTMD all night last night and all was well. I went to bed happy. Today I loaded it up and I get this:
Or this:
Sometimes both windows are blank. I have uninstalled it, reinstalled, re-downloaded the 'dopefish' version and retried the registry fix on it's own. I always end up with the above...
Pretty frustrating as I was hoping to finish my very first map and upload it today...  |
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MikeMiller
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Per-Scan wrote: | Right. Okay. I'm cursed! I was using ROTTMD all night last night and all was well. I went to bed happy. Today I loaded it up and I get this:
Or this:
Sometimes both windows are blank. I have uninstalled it, reinstalled, re-downloaded the 'dopefish' version and retried the registry fix on it's own. I always end up with the above...
Pretty frustrating as I was hoping to finish my very first map and upload it today... |
Strange. My guess is that it's a "Windoze" problem.
Time to reload!
Better yet, focus on playing my levels instead of creating your own!
They'll give you more ideas for your own maps anyway. 
-Mike
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think it's a Windoze problem as well. The annoying thing is it's a pretty new install. It's also ruined my momentum. It always takes me a while to get my teeth into something but when I do I like to run with it...
Still, you're right Mike. I'll just play your's and Hammer's levels... I'm sure there is plenty for me to learn from these...
I think I might just stick up my map just now anyway. Even if it's just to prove to myself that I've started something! |
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Lawstiker
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 473
Location: Sol System
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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That is an odd error, to bad that had to happen and stop your progress.
And throw it up here if you feel its ready to go
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Head on over to the Rise of the Triad HQ for ROTT news, downloads, and more!
| MikeMiller wrote: | | Lawstiker, you're not allowed to do what you want. You need to do what WE want :p :p :p |
Lawstiker, the ROTT Community's Official Bitch |
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dopefish7590
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it is a problem with NTVDM..?
Do other 16-bit applications have this problem?
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Right, this is just bizarre. My girlfriend and I have exactly the same laptop (HP NC6400). Hers is normally hooked up to the TV as a media player / torrent machine and mine is for my geeky pursuits.
The laptops running resolution is 1280x800 @ 60Hz. So is the TV output so they are both the same. I stuck RMD onto her laptop and used it on the telly. All was fine. So, I (thought cleverly) disconnected her laptop, plugged in mine, set up all the HDD's etc and set uTorrent running. All's good, methinks.
I switched on her laptop (now mine!), loaded up RMD and guess what? The same thing happened! The editor loads up fine, all the sprites are there and then after a few seconds they disappear until I click on one again. Then they reappear for a few seconds then poof! They're gone again...
So, it runs fine on the TV at exactly the same resolution and refresh rate as the built in monitor that it doesn't work on. Also, bear in mind everything was fine until this afternoon!!  WTF!! |
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Per-Scan
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| dopefish7590 wrote: | Maybe it is a problem with NTVDM..?
Do other 16-bit applications have this problem? |
I thought about that and had a look and everything looks fine to me. I don't have any problems with any other program at all. ROTTed (Which I presume to be 16 bit) is fine as is the older Wolf3D editor, FloEdit, that I tried... |
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Lawstiker
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 473
Location: Sol System
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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WTF indeed...not quite sure what is going on. (and yes, ROTTed is a 16bit application)
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| MikeMiller wrote: | | Lawstiker, you're not allowed to do what you want. You need to do what WE want :p :p :p |
Lawstiker, the ROTT Community's Official Bitch |
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